NOTES – July 21, 2012
Contents
Chapter 0: Book Plan
Chapter 1: Introduction
Chapter 2: Method
Chapter 3: Languages
Chapter 4: Skills
Chapter 5: Orientation
Chapter 6: Basics
Chapter 7: Intermediate
Chapter 8: Advanced
Chapter 9: Stories
Chapter 10: Misc
Appendix
References
Chapter 0: Book Plan
- Chapter 1: Introduction
- Chapter 2: Method
- Why learn a language?
- Myths
- MAP- Motivation, Active Attitude, Patience
- Other approaches
- Making your own path
- Chapter 3: Languages
- Considerations
- Language showcase
- Chapter 4: Skills
- Chapter 5: Orientation
- Chapter 6: Basics
- Phase description: the crux
- Managing the phase
- Classes
- Textbooks and software
- Self-study
- Pronunciation
- Grammar
- Vocabulary
- Chapter 7: Intermediate
- Phase description: on to fluency
- Managing the phase
- Resources
- Conversation
- Reading
- Context
- Word analysis
- Chapter 8: Advanced
- Chapter 9: Stories
- Chapter 10: Misc
- Appendix
- References
Chapter 1: Introduction
Inspired by the work of a Hungarian translater. Enjoyed her personal story, telling how she accomplished the learning of languages on her own, insights. Not dogmatic or theoretical. So this is based on my own experiences in getting reading knowledge of four languages, speaking knowledge (now rusty), and study of several more languages.
Speak in a personal voice, without lapsing into marketing-ese.
SUMMARY. What you’re going to tell people and why it’s important.
DESCRIBE how you started. Wound up because of peak oil, reading about it. Wanted some way to relax, take my mind off it, so I could go to sleep. Tired of reading in English.
In October 2006, I Picked up a novelette by George Simenon, the prolific writer of the Maigret detective series. It was “Sept Petites Croix Dans un Carnet.”
I had studied French 26 years before, and was not expecting much. I remember that I had been able to get to a reading knowledge and read several novels, but I remembered those as big achievements.
To my surprise, I could make my way through the text. I had to look up words, but there was a glossary in this edition, so with a little effort I was happy to find that I could finish it.
With that, I was hooked.
Very satisfying, it occupied my mind in a way that reading English did not. Hard to explain…. it made me slow down and pay attention to the words.
I’ve continued reading several French books per month since then. Re-discovered the pleasure of foreign language.
I realized that this was unusual, and perhaps worthy of sharing.
It seemed a kind of pleasure that might be a model for a low-resource future.
Some discoveries would make things easier for other people.
Qualifications – four languages, can speak, listen, read. Especially read.
Chapter 2: Method
Why learn a language?
Why languages?
There are the traditional pragmatic reasons:
- family, roots
- travel
- economic, jobs, business
- survival: find oneself among people speaking a different language
- academic requirements
Then there are the other reasons why one might want to learn languages, even if it was not necessary:
- culture
- fun
To become an educated person. Puts you in contact with other cultures, other civilizations, other periods of history.
Challenge, own control, new discoveries, contact with others-past.
Develop motivation. Think about it, envision having the skill.
movies, travel, books, people, food, history
Netflix and some libraries may have many DVDs in foreign languages
talk to others who are enthusiastic (Israeli couple and ancient Hebrew, explained relation to Aramaic)
Not emphasized much. But otherwise, what’s the point? It’s an excercise in mental gymnastics.
If you have a choice, learn the languages that you love, the cultures you are attracted to. Important to choose the right language. LINK to language section.
Even if you don’t like the culture at first, can usually find something worthwhile. For example, with Latin.
I don’t think people will be able to go through the process of learning a language, unless they enjoy it.
An interest that is:
inexpensive, in one place, under one’s own control, pleasurable, meaningful, satisfying.
General ideas
- No magic shortcuts. No secret gadgets.
- Focus and motivation are the most important factors.
- Be willing to make mistakes.
- Don’t compare self to the images in the media or to ideas of perfection.
- Figure things out for yourself: go with your own tastes and learning style.
- Learn (selectively) from others
- Make full use of resources.
- Practice – make the activity a part of your life.
- Make it fun.
- Don’t explain, don’t apologize. Instead, concentrate on the thing itself.
Myths
- Myth: Learning a language is a definite thing – you achieve it once, and that’s it.
Reality: Learning a language is like a relationship. The more you put into it, the more you get out of it. It’s a lifelong thing. You never learn it all.
Look on your relationships with langauge as a marriage. An ongoing relationship over the years. So think carefully about which languages you choose.
For me (reflecting European orientation): Italian, French, Spanish, German.
- Myth: There is a magic technique. If only you could find the right product….
Reality: It takes time and persistence to acquire any skill. There are some tricks and techniques for enjoying it more, motivating yourself, making it more efficient. But don’t need to spend a lot of money to acquire it. Will need to expend time and effort.
- Myth: You need to have a high IQ, special gift. Some people cannot learn foreign languages.
Reality: Children are able to learn every language in the world. Some children learn two, three or more languages. People in various countries can do it. The people who are able to do it, seem to have certain things in common. Enjoyment, fearlessness, curiosity, willingness. (Chomsky quote – humans are made to learn languages)
- Myth: There is one way that works for everyone, that is valid.
Reality: Different motivations, different learning styles. Some love grammar, some pick up languages from talking with people, others by reading. Some thrive in classes. Others hate them. Can make a few generalizations, but many differences. Different approaches, e.g. grammar. Some seem to work better than others, whereas others are mostly carried on by tradition, whether they work or not.
- Myth: It is something that other people can do for you.
Reality: Here is one generalization you can make. The more you take responsibiity for your own progres, the less you depend on others, the faster you will learn. The more active the better. Motivation is everything.
- Myth: It is painful and requires superhuman will power.
Reality: The key is to find an enjoyable activity which enables you to practice. Usually –
the activity is under your control (not imposed on you)
pleasure, satisfaction rather than fear, anxiety - Myth: You need to learn grammar.
Reality: Children don’t learn their native language by studying grammar. Some teaching methods do without it, but people use them and learn languages.
- Myth: Grammar is useless.
Reality: Grammar can be very handy. Part of traditional teachning methods. Also, most polyglots rely on a knowledge of grammar – like a template that helps them learn new languages. Don’t need to make it a religion. Most of the important rules and forms — not that hard. It can be hard to learn everything.
- Myth: Good language learners don’t make mistakes.
Reality: Good language learners make lots of mistakes. It’s just that they persist, and they correct them efficiently.
- Myth: Your head head will explode.
Reality: No reported cases! One wonders, how can tens of thousands of different words, totally different languages co- exist in the same cranium? Somehow we humans seem to be able to handle it.
MAP- Motivation, Active Attitude, Patience
Children and languages
I’m speaking mostly for motivated adults. Children are a different story – probably it’s more important to give them an exposure without forcing it on them. Songs, games, interaction. Keep it a positive experience, no heavy grammar. There are probably opportunities to do this better. Sesame Street for language learning. The equivalent of a governess. Being with other kids who speak a different language. (ask Ellen?)
My experiences, hints and observations. Naturally they reflect my likes and dislikes. Will point to other sources for different approaches.
Seems in accord with modern theories and the experiences of polyglots.
in my method, do whatever is necessary to get a basic knowledge
then – read and listen ASAP, relying on the dictionary as little as possible
The same idea as vocabulary holds true for grammar. Learn the most common grammar and constructions (especially the ones that are different from your native language).
1) Get excited
2) Assemble a learning environment
3) Learn basics
4) Progress through a series of graded readings
5) Read / listen for pleasure and utility
These are done concurrently, of course, but the general order holds true.
Two aspects
INTENSITY —
focus on grammar (multiple texts), practice,
getting the basic vocabulary
pronunciation
Memorize where appropriate (esp for speaking and/or writing)
EXTENSITY —
reading,
listening
making it a habit in your life
Loom of Language: points out that the skills required for reading and listening are very different from speaking and writing. You can get by with a basic vocabulary and grammar with speaking/writing, but you need to know them very well. OTOH, you need a much larger vocabulary to read and listen, but you don’t need to know it actively. Just have to recognize it. Also, you will encounter more grammatical forms, but again, only need a passive knowledge.
Another suggesiton: learn reading and listening first, then the others.
Emotional
Take responsibility for your own learning
Don’t blame teachers, books, classes. Get what you can from them. Supplement as needed. Go out and get what you need.
Don’t “fight” the language. Sometimes I have the feeling underneath the surface, “Why don’t they do this logically?” “Why can’t they just speak English.”
Protecting the ego. It is hard to be like a child again. You may be laughed at. You will be helpless for a while. Thus: “I can’t do it.” blaming the teacher/course. Don’t blame, don’t apologize, don’t live up to any image. Concentrate on the language itself. Soon you will be past that frustrating early stage.
Why be in a hurry? This is a long relationship.
Patience. Much to learn.
Don’t count words, points, number of languages.
It’s not a contest, not a job – that ruins the spirit
When are you finished? Always more
Other approaches
Methods
Grammar Translation Method: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar_translation
Direct Method http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_method_%28education%29
Audio Lingual Method (ALM) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio-lingual_method
Natural approach http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_approach
Communicative language teaching http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communicative_language_teaching
Community language learning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_language_learning
Making your own path
Questions
Chapter 3: Languages
Considerations
[Convey excitement, why you like languages]
My feelings about the different languages. Other people will have different ideas.
Language showcase
if i were to recommend a language for Americans, I would suggest Spanish or French.
Spanish because it’s about the easiest language for Americans to learn, and because it is the second most spoken language in the U.S. (more than 10%). French because it gives the most culture per unit of effort
(Of course, I ignored this advice and studied German and Italian as my first two languages.)
Choosing the language you want to learn
How to choose your target language
Empires of the Word: A Language History of the Word (Nicholas Ostler)
(how languages get to be world-languages).
Spanish
cousin to French and Italian
said to be easiest for English-speakers — probably agree
phonetic, easy pronunciation
useful for US, especially the West
history and literature
right next door
different feel than French and Italian… more stoic
Spanish is phonetically written, easy to pronounce. The grammar is straightforward Romance language (similar to French, Italian and Portuguese). Many teachers and classes. Much material. Right next to millions of Spanish speakers in Latin America. And in fact, it really is already the second language of the United States.
According to the MLA Langauge Map, based on 2000 census data,
82% speak English at home (215M)
10.7% speak Spanish at home (28M)
French and Chines are next, both with under 1%
In California (my state)
25% speak Spanish or Spanish creole at home (8 M).
According to a report by the Instituto Cervantes, the United States contains more Spanish speakers than Spain, and is surpassed only by Mexico. The present estimate is now at 45 million Spanish speakers.
The study also gives 2006 figures for U.S. university students of the three top lanugages:
822,985 Spanish
206,426 French
94.264 German
(Also see the Wikepedia entry for Spanish in the United States.)
Michael Erard points out that “compared with Chinese, Thai, or Urdu, Spanish is practically English.” (Texas Observer, March 6, 2008, “Come se dice corruption” / “Lingua Americana”)
The US is a de facto bilingual state. We are lucky that the second language is Spanish – useful, and one of the easiest languages to know. It opens the door to the other Romance languages.
French
I’d recommend French, because it’s culturally important. Even though it’s hard at first because of the pronunciation and non-phonetic spelling, I find that French gets easier as you advance. It almost feels like cheating because so much of the vocabulary is similar to English.
May seem hard at first but gets easier to read. Speaking and listening are harder.
Clear style, many idioms, much culture.
Mutual influence between French and English-speaking worlds. Shared history, culture.
similar vocabulary. feels like cheating!
some difficulty in sounds, spelling, constructions
but i think it becomes easier to read… perhaps because of french literature
literature and history
the French have done it all: Empire, Revolution, peasants, avant-garde
chic factor, good taste
so much good writing. style is clear, entertaining (vs ponderous)
The Story of French by Jean-Benoît Nadeau and Julie Barlow
Italian
cousin to French, doesn’t have a sense of its own importance as french.
human, humanistic
sense of humor
since i studied, italy has become rich – Berlusconi – soccer – pop culture
love the neo-realism of the 30s-60s. More human
French cousin said the food is better in Italy
fun to speak, hear
easier than french (at least at first)
not as rich a literature as french (but not many languages are)
not especially useful for business or science
but for art, history, literature
English
spelling and some pronunciation is difficult. many idioms.
But staggering amount of material is available (hard to get away from English in the modern world)
Practical reasons to learn
Simplified grammar (very few endings compared to other Indo-European languages0
museum of languages
vocabulary from Germanic and Latin/Romance languages
German structure, with many (most) from Latin/Romance
However most basic vocabulary words, most common, are related to German
useful
English literature and history
for better or worst, dominant empire
German
history and literature
nice contrast to Romance languages
different feel – more energetic, gritty, scholarly, intense, deeply felt
Romance languages tend to rhetoric (esp French) and abstract
fairly phonetic
not that hard to pronounce, spell
helps with English – learn more about vocab and structure
Mandarin
latest enthusiasm (mostly enthusiasm about culture)
huge population
very different -tones, different writing system
different culture
A good antidote to European-centered culture
Good instructional material is hard to come by. Easier than in past.
Keep looking for dual-language texts.
Chinese movies
Characters are fascinating, e.g. happy = mother + baby
would like to see dual-language or inter-linear editions of Chinese texts
with pinyin + characters + English
and especially if there were audio to accompany the text, someone reading in Mandarin
Free or cheap stories or articles, of good quality. So would enjoy reading.
A lot of commercial products, lessons. Seem to be superficial. Not very high quality. The textbooks I’ve seen are dry.
For a world language, Chinese does not have that much good material for learners. But the situations is improving fast.
Chinese teaching traditions aren’t too helpful – memorization, discipline. Needs updating.
Learning Chinese could be made much easier.
Latin
See Taking a trip to ancient Rome
easy vocabulary if you kow a Romance language already
grammar is much more difficult than current Romance languages
Nice interlinear texts
Suggestion: work backward, from a Romance language (Spanish or Italian), then Medieval Latin, then the classic Latin of Cicero.
many texts available, but the Latin corpus is not very large
lots of classics
They are untouched for mottos and aphorisms
Dislike the way it’s been taught – memorize grammar facts
To irritate, pronounce like Italian (as Catholic Church does)
Dislike the myth – because it’s not true.
But once you put this aside, very interesting. Understand where the Western world came from, bad and good.
HISTORY!
influenced European civilization = ideas, attitudes, literature,
e.g. the idea of Imperialism, copied by Hitler and Napoleon
dislike a lot – slavery, not esp creative or intelligent, pompous, warlike
OTOH, but like anything, much wisdom,
Prejudiced against Latin and Roman culture.
Found myself rooting for the Barbarians (see book & DVD)
But when dig deeper, as usual, you can set aside the myth
videos like Rome, I Claudius, Spartacus
Realized mostly it was the myth of Rome in European culture (idealizing Rome and the pompous literature). When look more closely, it’s fascinating
Tremendous amount of material on a non-modern civilization. Mayan archaeologist awestruck by the detail vailable.
slavery, imperialism, idea of a world empire, snobbery, pomposity, militarism
Russian
literature, history
interesting alphabet
satisfying pronunciation
a world language
Greek – modern and ancient
Greek literature more creative, more interesting than Latin
Doesn’t have the heavy hand that Latin does.
learn both. avoid mistake of reifying the Ancient, neglected the modern. Need to see how things change.
Suggestion: work backward, from modern Greek then the koine (used in the New Testament for example), then classic Greek.
Modern writers
sounds beautiful
literature and history
Hebrew
Bible, modern literature
easier than Arabic
different script
literature and history
much good material available.
Israeli government encourages Hebrew lessons
Arabic
huge civilization, due for a Renaissance
Different worldview
Script is hard.
Pali/Hindi
Read Indian literature, Buddhist texts. Access to a great cvilization.
Irish
Irish history and culture
another branch of Indo-European family of languages, would be interesting
spoken in Ireland, classes, materials
related to other Celtic languages
I like the sound
Synthetic Languages
Esperanto
Interlingua – Latino Sine Flexione
could read right away
easier than Esperanto
simplified Latin, similar to Italian and Spanish
English has made obsolete, too bad, good idea
There are others…. not really interested in pursuing now.
Lingua Franca Nova
http://lingua-franca-nova.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova
Eurapanto
Funny. Started as a joke, but popular. Seems to respond to something in the way people work. (See email)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europanto
“The main feature of Europanto is that there are no fixed rules — merely a set of suggestions. This means that anybody can start to speak Europanto immediately;”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/220511.stm
http://www.europanto.be/
http://www.neuropeans.com/topic/europanto/what/more.php
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3930&PN=1&TPN=1
Questions
Chapter 4: Skills
There are different aspects of a foreign language. In terms of difficulty:
Reading
Understanding the spoken language
Speaking
Writing
Chapter 5: Orientation
Develop motivation. Think about it, envision having the skill.
movies, travel, books, people, food, history
Netflix and some libraries may have many DVDs in foreign languages
talk to others who are enthusiastic (Israeli couple and ancient Hebrew, explained relation to Aramaic)
Chapter 6: Basics
Phase description: the crux
Most difficult phase. Orientation is fun and non-stresful. Intermediate – you’re seeing the result of your work and preparation. But the basics … stumbling block, because you don’t know enough to do the interesting stuff. It’s new, frustrating.
Typically this is what is taught in language classes. It’s where the most frustration is. Therefore this is where there is the most argument about how to teach it. Back and forth – Grammar-Translation Method, Direct Method, Audio-lingual Method, Natural Method, Pimsleur, etc.
For most of us, we don’t have to have strong opinions about the theories. We can tell what worked for us, and take use of opportunities from many different methods.
Will explain what worked for me, and what the underlying skills that have to be learned, no matter what the method.
Personally, I don’t think the specifics of the method are that important. What’s needed is that you spend hundreds of hours with the language, as actively and enjoyably as possible.
But to speed things up, you can concentrate on certain things: pronunciation, basic vocabulary and grammar.
I am opportunistic. If there’s a class or sw or textbook available, I’ll try it out. Looking for things that are available and cheap (or free) and that work. At this point now, I don’t need tricky software or handholding. I’m eager to get to good books and movies.
can go through the basic material
grammar, pronunciation, alphabet (script), vocabulary
(optional but recommended)
Schaum or Spanish I, etc.
The material I used was cheap, commonly available.
Conversaphone, probably obsolete, but I loved it for the basics.
Collected whatever was available.
Lots of practice.
Mental attitude. This is not fun like party-hats. But you can get satisfaction from working to achieve a goal. It is a limited goal. Work through the textbooks and the tapes. Can make a lot of progress.
For a community of language learners who are motivated to do this, see the Discussion Forums at
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/
Managing the phase
Learn basics, then spread out
Another fact about languages. It seems to be an extreme case of the Pareto Principle (“For many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes”).
A few hundred or thousand words are extremely common:
the, and, you, is, think, walk, go, good
Whereas the vast majority of words are rarely used:
periwig, exterminator, peninsula, bagpipe, fo’c’s’le
So the logical strategy would be to learn the common words as quickly as possible. Do whatever it takes, so that you will know the most common words in a text. This makes it much easier to guess the remaining words. More successful. More fun.
Otherwise, if you just throw yourself into a text in language you don’t know, it’s frustrating and mysterious.
Repetition
What you really need at the beginning is repetition. Grammar, pronunciation, vocabulary. Many thousands of things to remember.
Oh, lo
ok Jane, Look! See Dick Run.
Cat in the Hat
Look for repetition in structure, in vocabulary, in course formats
They help you remember, help you guess words that are uncertain.
Experiment
Do what is at hand – easy – fun – rewarding
Look at different approaches, try them (with a small commitment at first), then contine with the ones that are the best for you.
Maybe not classes at first. See what you can do on your own.
Classes
- Prepare ahead of time
- Keep responsibility for learning yourself
- The social aspect can be good – esp in a foreign country.
- At a certain point, they are not very useful. Easier to do it yourself.
- Some people may be turned off to a particular approach.
I feel ambivalent about classes
At a certain point, they are awkward, slow, confusing – they get in the way of learning.
They teach bad habits, arouse anxiety (tests, grades), over-explain (??) over-intellectualize.
The classroom environment becomes dominant rather than the language itself
Bad attitudes: “this is hard” “i can’t do it”
Bureaucracy, inconvenience, expense.
Teachers can be dreadful, leave vulnerable people traumatized.
On the other hand, it’s nice to be with other people. Get exposure. Hear good pronunciation. Get a push. Teachers can be inspiring and helpful, especially at first.
Right now, I’d rather work on the basics by myself, to get to a certain level. Then I’d be better able to make use of the class.
Overseas classes can be very good. Immersion, culture, intense (can be too much), language seems real.
But bureaucracy, cost, unknown quality.
In other countries
See that the language is REAL, not just a classroom excercise.
An “adventure”. probably best NOT in tourist areas. Calmer and less expensive in secondary cities (e.g. Norwich, Lucca) vs London and Florence.
Best if alone, away from tourists, in contact with regular people (esp kids). Family? Language classes.
But culture shock.
Textbooks and software
Gather materials
gather materials –
library, used bookstore, web
You want a wide selection. Your tastes and abilities and needs will change. I have gotten in the habit of buying good material, even if I don’t need it right away. Because it is often hard to come across.
Don’t get hung up on finding the perfect course/book.
Important to have a wide variety of materials
– things that interest you, that are at the right level
Libraries – get to know local ones
Used books stores, library book sales — best source for me
many good out-of-print books
often the earlier books are better than current (opinion), anyway, much cheaper
New bookstores – often not much and expensive
College and university towns
Tempting to buy language materials, even if you don’t need them right away.
never know when you’ll have an opportunity to buy them again
Apparently others do this too.
LISTENING
TV and radio
Web and Youtube
Movies (Netflix)
Tapes and recordings – for improving comprehension and accent
GRAMMAR
Textbooks
available 2nd hand, sometimes old ones are best
Courses – library, online, used, new
Workbooks!
DICTIONARY
small one okay at first
but very soon should get a full-size one. very frustrating not to find words.
Web
What it’s like discovering the Internet… different universe.
Web – maybe most important
other people interested, doing it
enthusiasm
ideas
Things have moved on since I started 25+ years ago.
Nonetheless think it’s worthwhile to put my ideas down
SOme quick thoughts before I forget
… while preparing this article, I wanted to take a quick look around the Web to see if anything was new. Mistake. Overwhelmed by all the material that’s out there
ideas, free lessons, discussion forums, for-pay lessons, texts, etc.
And yet …
1. Few places where I’d want to stay for a long time. Too noisy, often incomplete or obsolete or broken.
2. Too much! It’s overwhelming. Stayed up late listening to audios, videos, exploring sites.
3. Really, need to settle down with one approach. A good book.
4. Despite all the material, novelty, I think I’d stay with the concepts in this essay. Only difference is that some of the exercises exist online. Many places to try out a language.
5. In particular, seems hard to get the kind of quality reading material that is important to me (nice editions, some with glossaries and notes, works that are still in copyright), and want something attractive to hold, to write in.
6. All the ideas … yes, interesting, but eventually you’ve got to get back to your way of doing things. Pay attention to your way of working, rather than getting distracted.
7. It’s a place for stimulation, new ideas, possibilities …. but not for quiet work and completion.
8. On old languages, I want good books more than anything. (will try listening to audios, especially for new langauges). But really, prefer good books. And I have boxes of them waiting for me. // News sites and articles in languages already comfortable with.
For new books, will try online course materials (e.g. flashcards at Polyglot site). Will try interlinear texts that I found (not easy to find as physical books). Especially good for early exposures. And news sites and articles for articles I already know.
I don’t like reading on the web very much, so I try to get a book or print off the web pages. I find it a strain.
I prefer having a book for grammar or textbook. Get used to its way of doing things. On the web, the quality is unpredictable. I haven’t found anything that I wanted to spend a lot of time with.
But there are loads of material on the web.
Free Language Courses (NOT VERY GOOD)
Foreign Services Institute (FSI) language courses (free government courses)
MIT online courseware (free)
Foreign language courses at MIT with large audio-visual component
Internet Polyglot: Free Language Lessons Online GOOD – useful, flexible
The Linguist (commercial site, but with much free material for learners in different languages – GOOD)
BOOK: The Linguist on Language
Flashcard exchange
Free Language
So you want to learn a language
SITI CON ATTIVITÀ DI ITALIANO PER STRANIERI
Self-study
Pronunciation
Grammar
Very helpful, but not necessary.
I don’t know what to say to others. I know there is a distaste for grammar – dry and abstract.
I took to grammar naturally, because it helped make sense of the new language. But I don’t like it for its own sake. But rather for what it enables you to do.
Those people who like abstract thinking, who tend to be bookish, will probably do best with grammar. (On the other hand, may overdo it.)
Those people who are more outgoing, impatient with books and sitting still, may do fine without it. May pick up conversation faster than others, if they are uninhibited.
If you want to learn multiple langauges, grammar is really a necessity. It’s like a template that stays much the same from langauge to language. (Similar language families, like French, Italian, Spanish, very similar. BUt even very different families will have nouns, verbs, adjectives, and rules for interaction.
Once you learn how grammar works, it becomes very frustrating to be in a language course without it.
Like a map. If you are accustomed to reading maps, it really helps. You can live without a map, but it will take you much longer to get around.
It is a set of shortcuts.
Get a reasonable view of it – it’s either over-empahsized or under-emphasized
Put it in perspective. You can fill two sheets of paper with the grammar facts and forms for a language.
That would be most of the important grammar. It is not unlimited. Why not learn it, and get on with it?
Memorization can be very efficient.
Need repetition of grammar. That’s why I love Spanish I, Spanish II books (also Schaum).
You are introduced to a point of grammar, then get several dozen repetititve exercises.
Don’t fight grammar. Study it or don’t. But don’t waste your time arguing about it, or doing it and resenting it.
If you don’t want to study grammar, make the decision and see the results. You can always change your mind later.
Just do it, get it over with. It’s easier just to do it than to fight it. People often seem to spend more energy fighting it.
If not motivated (I’m not motivated right now), jump into reading and see how far you can get. if/when you are frustrated or curious, you can dip into the grammar. Now you will have motivation to learn some grammar – it will help decode texts. Increasingly I’m leaning towards this direction: getting exposure first, then having questions and motivation. Perhaps because I’ve become more familiar with the process.
Suggest: Don’t get hung up on the fine points. To begin with, all you need are the basics. That will enable you to start with the fun stuff.
If you are mostly concerned with reading, all you need is a passive knowlege of grammar. You only have to recognize grammatical forms. And often the context will tell you, or give hints.
e.g. French has a historical/literary past tense, which is pretty irregular.
So, whenever I see verb from that I don’t recognize, and it’s in the past, I identify it as historical past.
Don’t need to memorize the particular verb forms for the past.
BORING – at this point, I’m bored by grammar and by tapes and courses. I’m eager to read/hear good quality content, things that I’m interested in. More interested in understanding, than in learning a mechanical skill.
One reason to learn grammar – people use it to describe language – teachers use it —
i never do exercises in books – except for pure grammar drill
i don’t think i went through a regular textbook in french, italian, spanish. just records, grammar drill, readers.
The same idea as vocabulary holds true for grammar. Learn the most common grammar and constructions (especially the ones that are different from your native language).
– how to identify plurals
– know how pronouns are used (e.g. in Romance languages, they come before the verb when used as direct and indirect objects).
You could probably figure rules like these out by looking at examples (inductive reasoning). But why bother? Languages give you plenty of opportunity for this, why make it hard on yourself?
I sometimes try to read texts that are far beyond my capability (e.g. by interlinear or dual-language translations), and am often puzzled by grammar. This gives me motivation to work on grammar. Side benefit – even if I don’t understand the grammatical forms, I begin to have a feel for them. This makes it easier when I work on grammar.
On the other hand, much grammar is difficult and not necessary at first.
Vocabulary
Questions
Theory
At some point, I’d like to do some research in the field. For right now, just want to report my experiences and observations. Should note that it corresponds with some of the current theories.
Reading “why”. Some people learn better if they understand the Why of a thing. How the languages are related, vowel shifts, why grammar is the way it is. If so, good books on the subject. See books and materials that follow.
Learning languages is NOT a real concept, like knowing the math tables.
grammar — Learning ABOUT language.
an analogy might be musical theory for musicians, how to read music. Can get along without it
i don’t think that the common methods in social science work that well (still less, from the physical sciences) with proof and statistics. Much more helpful to see cases, try to understand, look at things historically.
interesting theories, apparently hotly disputed.
suggest: look at successful langauge learners (give LINK), see what people did in the past. what worked and what didn’t. governess and tutor seemed to work. classromm with grammar did not. many of the older textbooks still seem useful to me. they didn’t have the resources to make mistakes that we do. so, things are more concentrated.
What does it mean to “learn” grammar?
– Parrot back rules (though this can be handy)
– Be able to construct sentences (speech or writing)
– Be able to recognize and decode
no magic solutions
a lot of approaches work
summary: the traditional classroom method of grammary, heavy on memorization, has been under attack.
instead: a greater emphasis on exposure – reading and listening, less (or no) emphasis on grammar. some are big on dialogues. the idea of “creating an environment” (access to material)
easy to become dogmatic
no grammar necessary vs grammar critical
no translation
grammar forms ~ among numbers of a language family
but “speaking like a native” is not a helpful goal – it’s about the hardest thing there is, and it’s not necessary
Chapter 7: Intermediate
Phase description: on to fluency
Managing the phase
Resources
Conversation
Put sign up to exchange English and other language.
Speakers of language in your area.
Volunteer opportunities
Involve in that community
Online language learning communties
Reading
READING is what I concentrate on, because:
1. I enjoy it.
2. Under your own control.
3. Cheap, flexible.
4. Get a deep knowledge of the culture. You become an educated person.
5. Wonderful background if you want to go on to other aspects of the language.
6. I’m tired of rote memorizing. I’ll do it if I have to, but …
don’t waste the time you’ve put into learning the basics
Carolyn C’s advice: vocabulary
You want a certain level of difficulty.
Basically, so you can enjoy the story without having to look up words too frequently.
SEE COMMENTS BY KRASHEN, N+1
(OR DO YOU want difficult texts? With easier texts, you read faster, encounter more words, have more clues for guessing at unknown words and patterns. I’m much more interested in finding interesting texts than whether they are “too easy.” Isn’t this how we make judgments in our native language?)
Process – progress from simple to hard
Use texts, so don’t have to look things up in dictionary
Use dual language – pronounce aloud, pick up vocab, get exposure to good lit (poetry and classics)
You want a wide selection. Your tastes and abilities and needs will change. I have gotten in the habit of buying good material, even if I don’t need it right away. Because it is often hard to come across.
Go back and forth – different levels of difficulty
often will read a book partway through… break for something easier for a while
then when i return weeks or months later, it’s much easier
Get in the habit of reading on own.
Figure things out for yourself
Read interesting material
poetry, good literature
Books for students
The glossary makes it faster to look up words
and sometimes a simplified vocabulary – avoid using a full dictionary
(continuing argument for redundancy)
even so, it is key to have reading material (and spoken) that is easy, has more clues.
a created environment – more clues, easier to try things out, doesn’t have bad consequences (e.g. driving a new piece of machinery, with signs in another language.)
Dual-language books
Interlinear
old Greek and Latin texts
(would be nice to have again)
poetry, opera, special editions (Dover)
Childrens books
Comic books
Plays
Translations – use common vocabulary, rather than obscure words and idioms
I don’t think I’ve seen this Translations suggested before.
By translations, I mean
Detective stories, popular fiction
Simple vocabulary. Description is not detailed. Predictable themes. Readily available. Translated versions are perfect.
Agatha Christie.
Sherlock Holmes.
Georges Simenon
Georges Simenon
Special place in my heart for George Simenon, author of the Maigret detective novels.
Wrote MANY books
Wiki:
“nearly 200 novels, over 150 novellas, several autobiographical works, numerous articles, and scores of pulp novels written under more than two dozen pseudonyms. Altogether, about 550 million copies of his works have been printed.”
He is best known, however, for his 75 novels and 28 short stories featuring Commissaire Maigret.Simple vocabulary.
In Maigret series, many repetitive phrases (he bourrait sa pipe (stuffed his pipe), prenait un petit verre de vin blan (had a glass of white wine), or “un demi” (of beer).Adult content, French feel,
Suspenseful, hard to put down.
An astonishing variety. Hard to believe that one person wrote them all.And his non-Maigret books are quite surprising.
Not only would they be good for people reading French, but other languages as well. They are translated in the major languages and should be readily available. Simple vocabulary, translations.
Using the dictionary
small dictionary okay at first
but very soon should get a full-size one. very frustrating not to find words.
then get better at finding the word in the dictionary. Make a good guess where the word is at first. Estimate. Try to find words to gain vocabulary without looking in a dictionary.
one idea– instead of dual dictionaries, it would be handy to have only one.
the full dictionaries are heavy, and tend to fall apart after awhile.
probably worthwhile to get a modern dictionary. the old French dictionary I had just wasn’t up to the modern idioms and meanings.
hard to look up idioms – that’s why it’s good to be able to guess. Give example in French.
Some have advised using a native language dictionary. A French dictionary total;y in French, for example. I can see that, at a certain point. Not that important though – better to see if you can figure out the word without the dictionary.
Dual-language technique
Many books are available in dual-language format. Some are textbooks and language programs.
Others are poetry, some literature. (Often these are not the easiest texts, but they are high quality).
According to an old method, some Greek and Latin classics are available in inter-linear translations.
It would be possible to get the same work in two different languages, and use that as your own dual-language book. I’ve never done it, since it seems awkward to me.
Read aloud the foreign language. Look at the translation. Try to figure out what means what.
What you get
– exposure the high quality literature
– low stress, low frustration
– acquire vocabulary
– exposure to grammatical forms
– you become curious about words and grammar
– get a feel for the language
– helps while you get familiar with a new alphabet
– problem – may not be the easiest texts, some words may be archaic.
Listening-Reading System
On variation is the listening-reading system described by “siomotteikiru”. Getting both original text and a translation into your own language, and an audio recording. Following along.
If you can get access to the original text in the foreign language, a translation into your own language, and a sound recording.
She recommends going through the text several times, since the key to learning a language is repeated exposure.
See the link for complete explanation and a long discussion.
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6366&PN=0&TPN=1
Interlinear
“Learning language the Hamilton way” (BAD LINK)
http://web.mac.com/davidcheshier/iWeb/Humanities%20Blog/Amateur%20Humanist/5EB94947-27A1-478A-8C3B-C3108CB5991D.html
“The Loeb Classical Library and a missed marketing chance”
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/brainiac/2008/12/loeb_classics_b.html
“History, Principles, Practice and Results of the Hamiltonian System”
by James Hamilton (after 1830)
http://www.archive.org/stream/historyprinciple00hamirich/historyprinciple00hamirich_djvu.txt
(p.37-41 passage on reading)
“John Taylor and Locke’s Classical System” (another interlinear system)
http://faculty.ed.uiuc.edu/westbury/paradigm/stray.html
Interlinear texts
Stories from Italian Writers
At Google Books
PDF
(Also should be able to find interlinear, or dual language in Greek-English for New Testament, and Hebrew-English for Old or Latin-English for both.)
Chaucer
http://www.courses.fas.harvard.edu/~chaucer/teachslf/tr-index.htm
Samples
French
Georges Simenon. The Maigret series.
Le Petit Nicholas
Sherlock Holmes in French
Pagnol
Alexandre Dumas – Three Musketeers. Surpisingly easy.
plays in general.
Italian
Carlo Collodi Pinocchio
Natalia Ginzburg
Gianni Rodari (Favole al Telefono)
opera librettos (often with opera recordings)
http://www.liberliber.it/home/index.php
Spanish
Now much material in our area (California), because of large number of Spanish speakers
Sherlock Holmes in Spanish
http://www.sherlock-holmes.es/descargas/?ir=novelas
Chinese
Sherlock Holmes in Chinese (I think – don’t use, may be a bad site)
http://www.my285.com/zt/kenan/?jdfwkey=lzexk2
ABC Dictionary of Chinese Proverbs
John S. Rohsenow
University of Hawai’i Press
2002
(dual language, interesting content. Pinyin, characters and English)
Picture Chinese: Art as Language
Sukming Lo
Long River Press
2006
attractive explanations of basic Chinese characters
(other books explain the characters, though in a dryer language)
Bible in Chinese-English interlinear
http://www.jidunet.cn/tools/bible/10vb/index.html
Greek
Interlinear translations of the New Testament
The Axion Esti by Odysseus Elytis.
University of Pittsburgh Press
1974
C.P. Cavafy Collected Poems
translated by Edmund Keeley and Philip Sherrard
Princeton University Press
1975
Latin
The Anchor Book of Latin Quotatations with English Translateions
compiled by Norbert Guterman
Anchor Books, Doubleday
1990
Latinum (online course and resources) BAD LINK
Latin Mass BAD LINK
http://lphrc.org/rmk/Latin/mass.html
Sallust
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=uoALAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=sallust+hamilton#PPA9,M1
Virgil
At Google Books
Virgil – GONE
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7773701/The-Works-of-P-Virgilius-Maro
Context
Guessing
There are several fallacies about translating which seems to come from traditional language classes.
– Each word has an English equivalent which you must memorize.
– Translate sentences word-for-word.
– You MUST understand every sentence completely, otherwise it is cheating.
Perhaps this comes from the practice of having students translate out loud.
Why Guess?
1. Get tired of looking up words in dictionary
2. A more active process than looking words up, tend to remember better
3. enthusiasm – can read a story for fun, rather than plodding through, looking up all the words you don’t know.
4. A good habit to develop, since you will constantly be faced with texts that contain words you don’t know.
5. This is how we acquired most of our English vocabulary
Guessing, 4 ways:
1. Context — from the context of the story, you can often guess the meaning of a word. Or at least a “good enough” meaning.
2. Grammar — Syntax, inflection — from the word’s position in the sentence, its inflections (e.g. endings), you can guess the part of speech, this helps in guessing the meaning. Parallelism – parallel phrases or clauses.
3. Look-alike (cognate) — the word itself may give a clue. It may be similar to another word you know in the language. Or it may be similar to a word in your native language.
4. Analysis — look at prefix, suffix, root of the word (Romance and German). Other languages would have a different way of analyzing (Hebrew and Arabic have three-consonant roots, Chinese characters are usually made up of other more simple characters. Does not always work, but it can give you clues which you can put together with other clues.
Can guess a lot about the word, usually enough to get by.
give example of
Pflaster in Simenon
Maigret – crate
Look up words?
It depends. Good to be able to vary
sometimes read 20 pages without looking up words – exciting – to get into a book
usually i look up every word I don’t know – try guessing first, seeing if i’m right
hint: you can read texts two (or more) times. First for general ideas. Second, to figure out meanings of words you dont’ know.
Some words do not matter. especially in descriptions. Give example.
Often I’m curious about the words, I want to see if I’ve guessed correctly. It slows down my reading, but I enjoy it.
Hint: helps if you kow something about the subject
Word analysis
Analysis of new words: (give examples)
1. Does it look like a word in English (careful – false friends as in Pflaster)
2. Location in the sentence:
3. Endings – grammar
4. Identify root, prefix, suffix
5. Story- meaning
6. Parallel construction
My wife and I read together in French. I read aloud, while Paula translates into English. When she was a student, Paula was a star language student. Unfortunately she learned by the old method which emphasized memorizing vocabulary and grammatical rules. She got good grades, but when it comes to reading on her own, her strategies are sub-optimal.
1. Go word by word, in the order in which they appear on the page
2. For each word, search one’s memory for the English translation
3. If a word is unfamiliar, guess at a translation based on its appearance (e.g. “monter” [to mount, go up] looks like “montrer” [to show])
If something doesn’t make sense, see it as a failure and frustration. The only solutions are the dictionary or brute force memorization of vocabulary.
Not a pleasant experience, because one cannot enjoy the story and feels that one is a failure. Why continue?
It’s especially difficult in French, in which there are many common words which can mean several things, and you can only figure it out by reading more of the sentence or by considering the context.
For example, “lui” can mean “to her,” “to him,” or “to it.”
“En” can mean “in,” “while,” “of in,” “of them”
“Si” can mean “yes” or “if”.
“ne … que” = only
“ne … plus” = not
Spoken French is even more difficult, because it is full of homonyms and unpronounced letters.
An explanation for computer people — one really needs a buffer of about 10 words, in order to make sense of French efficiently.
—
We began to be more analytical about words.
If one sees an unfamiliar word, look at its place in the sentence or its ending. Is it an adjective, noun or verb.
For example, “the cat in the chapeau”
“Chapeau” is a noun, a thing.
By paying attention to context, it was as if P’s IQ went up 50 points. She was often able to guess words that were difficult or unusual. Even if here guesses were wrong, they were usually reasonable. They fit the clues and would usually be sufficient to allow her to continue reading.
Something interesting. These were two very different strategies. Paula sometimes back and forth… the difference is dramatic. It’s usually as she gets sleepy that she falls back into the old way.
Why does guessing work?
Languages have built-in redundancy.
There are multiple clues and redundancies so that even if language is “wrong” or distorted, we have a good chance of making out the meaning.
Four egzampl, I kin mispel wurds, drop lttrs, nd th mesg wil still be undrstandbl.
As language learners we take advantage of redundancy to guess words we don’t know.
It’s as if every 20 words there occurred a nonsense word, and we had to fill in the XXXX of the word.
So the skill is learning to appreciate all the clues and to make reasonable guesses based on them. Detective work. Examples:
author’s style
story
previous knowledge of subject matter
word order, parts of speech
endings
words similar to other words in languages we know (native tongue or others)
intonation of speaker
facial expression and body language of speaker
context of consveration
Goldilocks and the three “ursi”
I can’t do it – the problem is too “complicado”
Walking along the street, I see a sign over a pair of doors saying “Uscita”. Curious, I try to open them. A man in a uniform runs over and shakes his head, “Non si deve entrare!” he says sternly.
I notice that improving my skills at guessing in French carried over to other languages.
Questions
Chapter 8: Advanced
Chapter 9: Stories
Polyglots
See how real people have learned languages – their own stories, rather than educational theories. In particular, read about polyglots, the people who have learned 3-30 languages. They often have developed habits, attitudes that are superior to the ones in classes. See ACCOUNTS OF LANGUAGE LEARNING.
Polyglots are an interesting bunch. Shows what human beings are capable of.
Interesting to read about their practices, because “they’ve done it.”
Reading them now that the Web makes them available – I see find that many of my intuitions have been confirmed. They are practical, open, non-dogmatic.
Online references.
How many languages?
The polyglot who reluctantly came to the conclusion that he really could not profitably keep current any more than 30 languages. Cardinal who knew xxx. Other cases.
For those of us (most of us) on the lower edge of the spectrum. In my experience, the first foreign language you learn as a non-child takes the most work, because you have to learn what it entails.
The second, third and following languages get to be less work, because you’ve developed your own ways to do it. In addition, you have a template for what’s involved.
Especially easy if you are learning languages in the same language family. For example:
Romance Languages (French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese)
Slavic (Russian, Czech, Polish, etc)
Scandanavian
Acccounts of language learning
Polyglot: How I Learn Languages
by Kató Lomb (Hungarian woman translator)
Full PDF
chatty and light. non-threatening. good advice.
Heinrich Schliemann’s method of language learning”
Cardinal Mezzofanti
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/mezzofanti/index.html
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/mezzofanti/biography/about-book.html
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/mezzofanti/biography/index.html
Alexander Arguelles
very earnest, a language monk.
much material, eager to share
http://www.foreignlanguageexpertise.com/index.html
Interview with Dr. Alexander Arguelles (The Linguist Blogger)
Dr. Alexander Arguelles: A Model of Polyglottery (The Linguist Blogger)
bio
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=300&PN=3
he answers questions on a forum
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=20
Success with Foreign Languages: Seven who achieved it and what worked for them by Earl W. Tevick (book in PDF)
The Linguist on Language – blog about language learning -Steve Kaufmann
The Way of the Linguist (online book)
All Japanese All The Time: 24 hours Japanese
I learned Japanese in 18 months by having fun. In June 2004, at the ripe old age of 21, all post-pubescent and supposedly past my mental/linguistic prime, I started learning Japanese. By September 2005, I had learned enough to read technical material, conduct business correspondence and job interviews in Japanese. By the next month, I landed a job as a software engineer at a large Japanese company in Tokyo (yay!).
I didn’t take classes (except for a high-level “newspaper reading” class…which merely confirmed that classes, um, suck); I didn’t read textbooks and I had never lived in Japan.
So how did I do it? Well, by spending 18-24 hours a day doing something, anything in Japanese (”all Japanese, all the time”). That sounds like a lot of time to invest, but I was almost as busy as you are: a full-time student majoring in computer science at a university in the armpit of the US (Utah), physically far from Japan and Japanese people.
Polyglot Stu Jay Raj Multilingual Presentation (Stuart Jay Raj)
How I would go about Learning Arabic (Stuart Jay Raj) URL CHANGED
Part 1 – Vietnamese – Learning a New Language from Scratch (Kinda) URL CHANGED
How to prepare for and what to expect from Cracking Thai Fundamentals
URL CHANGED
An easy way to learn foreign languages by Luca (“poliglotta80”) on YouTube
Learning a Language Without Lessons (SHORT, GOOD)
About Alexander Arguelles (his site)
Language learning is like falling in love
The Linguist Blogger
How Many Languages Is It Possible to Learn? (The Linguist Blogger)
The Many Languages of Ziad Fazah (The Linguist Blogger)
Interview with the Greatest Linguist Since Mezzofanti – Man Who Knows 115 Languages (The Linguist Blogger)
“In the end, I could say that I studied around thirty languages in regular, official university courses. The rest are self-taught. Someone once said that the first ten are the most difficult. After that, depending on your objective or momentary need, people invent their own method.
My story
different people, different learning styles,
different goals.
Modest claim to polyglottery. but can write about my experiences and conclusions.
My orientation
… interested in windows into other cultures, periods of history. History, literature, culture. For me, reading is most important. Then listening. Only if I’m going to be in contact with people would I start paying attention to speaking and writing.
mine – no problem with grammar,
wanted to learn langs in past
now, reading knowledge – a continuing pleaure
not too interested in speaking, writing. – might change in future
more interested in depth of language rather than many languages
Three phases:
1. Exposure in school, through experiences – interest is piqued
2. Intensive – learning of grammar, basic vocabulary, pronunciation – classes
3. Extensive – incorporated into life, reading, listening, movies. If I were in a position, speaking and listening.
School
Studied French (5th grade, fun, but just exposure). Marched around the room, singing “Quand les saints y vont marche”, teacher put on a beret. Exposure was fun.
Studied Spanish (1 yr in jr high- frustrated with ALM)
Studied Basic Principles of Language (BPOL) in 8th grade. really liked it.
Read Mario Pei, about etymologies, origin of English language
Frustrated by the ALM method of Spanish. It was confusing, inefficient. Memorizing dialogues – didn’t enjoy. Albondigas. A lot of waiting. ALM station with headphones and tapes.
Tried German, really liked it. The grammar made sense. I like the vigor of the style.
Never got to the point of reading on my own. Probably like most Americans who took a language in high school and college. I did get a good grounding in grammar and basic vocabulary.
Nothing in college. I was too eager to do things.
Intensity
Unhappy with American culture. Looking for something else.
Exposure to Europe on my 1974 trip. Loved France and Italy.
Found it in Italian (don’t remember what got me started)
Then once I was underway, I realized that French and Spanish were not that hard.
I think I started while in Berkeley in 1976 – Napa (with Jim) 1977.
Read Loom of Langugage, I think. Read about people who learned multiple lanaguages, was inspired, gave me confidence
Conversaphone – used bookstore. I liked old textbooks.
Conversaphone was cheap, came for many languages, straightforward.
Also, basic grammar workbooks. Why need anything fancy.
In Saint Helena, I took course in Italian from Roy Bissember.
I worked through grammars and readers. Remember reading in the janitor’s closet. 1978.
Took a class with Carolyn in German for wine.
Went to Guatemala to learn Spanish in 1979.
I must have prepared by going through exercises in the Span I, II, etc. books.
Doing some reading.
Very enjoyable.
Mastered the basic grammar and vocabulary, so I could concentrate on talking, reading.
It paid off. Saw others, frustrated, stumbling and unhappy.
For me, it was pleasure. Could talk, read. I know what the teacher was explaining.
Went to France and Italy in 1980. Signed up for language schoosl.
Again, I prepared… expecially for Italian.
Really enjoyed the experience.
They tended to be conservative in grammar, which I liked.
I remember reading “Horsemen of the Apocalypse”?? , Pagnol
Rodari,
I got to the point where I could read intermediate texts, understand Italian,
speak enough to communicate. Same with Spanish, and to a lesser extent French.
Lived in the culture.
At some point, became interested in other langauges
Russian, Greek (modern, classical), Latin.
It was satisfying. Read a lot. Got a feeling for cultures other than American. That need was met.
Pursued these off-and-on, but mostly put langauges aside, since I had other things to do in my life. A career, permanent relationship, other interests.
Met Paula in 1981
Reading
Languages weren’t really a part of my life for about 25 years. I could read them, spoke a few sentences every so often. Spoke on a trip to Baja California.
Really, a waste of the time and effort I had put into it.
Turning point: visited cousin who was studying a new language for fun
Oct 2006 began reading French.
Some things in Italian.
Studied Latin, Chinese.
Recently, bored with reading in English. Wanted something to relax after working on Energy Bulletin.
Took up a copy of Simenon in French. Didn’t think I’d get very far, but in fact, I could read it all through. Motivated me to keep reading in French, until I was a fluent reader. Bought several boxes of books at books sales. Had purchased some earlier.
Much later (2007 or 8), Chinese, Hebrew.
Then to German again, which I never really got a reading knowlege of.
NOW:
don’t like memorizing. More interested in reading, in getting a complete knowledge that way. also, i find it enjoyable. Even when studying Chinese, rather intersted in doing it by Reading rather than by memorizing. Still, Chinese grammar helps — answers those question.
Chinese proverbs
Hebrew version of Bible.
i don’t speak or write now. i’m not in an environment where it’s necessary or easy. but i could re-activate when it would be appropriate. If I were going to travel, I would have the motivation to speak and understand; I’d be happy to do the drills.
—
I was lucky that there were people in my family who loved languages. There were some examples and some support.
Grandfather – Prof of Romance Languages
Uncle married a French woman, spoke very well
Sister – PhD in Indo-European languages
Cousin studied linguistics, learned languages for the fun of it
in-laws from other countries – Indonesia, Iran, etc.
(probably won’t include this, more for my own interest)
Paula says, “What about me?
Paula, Julie, Gale, Silvana, Carolyn… all were foreign language buffs or teachers.
Chapter 10: Misc
Study Circles here
Connection with peak oil
As I thought about it, I began to see a connection with peak oil.
In the move to sustainability, it isn’t all hard work and organizing and gardening. What do we do with our free time? In fact, this is where we get into a lot of trouble.
ALSO- for education.
An interest that is:
inexpensive, in one place, under one’s own control, pleasurable, meaningful, satisfying.
Can take time , work, practice, study.
Change ideas of what is worthwhile. Lots of stuff, corporate job vs fit, aware, skilled , in relationships.
Typically, we move heavy things long distances (e.g. ourselves in our cars) – as tourists, to go shopping.
Or we buy things made with energy, that come a long way. Lots of things.
This has always been an ugly process. But earlier, society could afford it. The neuroses that accompany consumer society.
– move heavy things long distances
buy high tech things, fashionable things, in general if advertised, plastic
People spend and waste fuel – moving about in search of pleasure, satisfaction, a sense of accomplishment
New gadgets, complicated technologies, bloated bureaucracies.
To generalize:
1. Consumer economy. Bought with money.
2. This is where status resides. This is where we believe that “fun” lies.
3. Typically involves expenditures of energy and resources.
Problem, when they become more expensive. Or we have less disposable income. Both of which seem to be in our future.
If we don’t have an alternative vision, then we see ourselves as poor and deprived. Or fight to get the last bit of resources so we can do things that are fun and bring status. Or we bring ourselves into debt.
Culture Change
Thinking about a future with fewer resources… there’s more than just gardening and recycling and solar panels. the entire culture will look different. in what ways? want to think about it.
– will require less energy, fewer resources
– will be local (won’t require mechanized travel)
– will rely more on humans, minds, bodies – not on machines or bureaucracy.
– in best case, develop human capabilities. physically, mentally, emotionally, socially.
– self-sufficient, rather than manipulating machines and bureaucracy.
What if the goals were not “to have”, but “to be and to do”.
Instead of cars — fitness, physical skill
Instead of high tech toys — friendship, relationships
Instead of passivity and pop culture — skill and knowledge
Vision of humans who develop their different aspects
artistic
physical
languages
Brian Goodwin on Peak Oil – an Interview (Transition Culture)
Q: To what extent do solutions to the energy problem involve action in other, non energy, fields?
… A: [In addition to currency and economics,] the other area is education. Education needs to be fundamentally transformed. I’ve been in Universities nearly all my life, and in my experience University education has now become pretty thoroughly irrelevant to the training that people need to receive in order to make the transition that we are going through. We need a new education. So what is the image of this new education process? I have just been talking about local currencies, well education needs also to ‘go local’. Universities should serve their local communities and they should serve them with the ingenuity that comes out of this concentration of creative energy in Universities in terms of putting together new communities, developing new technologies, so that we develop what I like to think of now as something that Fritjof Capra has introduced into the dialogue here at Schumacher College, looking at the Renaissance, the period of Leonardo da Vinci, which had a workshop culture. A lot of people got their practical skills in workshops. I love this idea. If Universities and schools could become in some sense workshops, playshops, toyshops, whatever you want to call it, but where practical skills are developed for the whole person, and we don’t fragment the world of learning into specialized disciplines. We will still have specialized skills, because people will want to develop high quality abilities in different areas, but that’s up to the individual to choose, and that will give them the creativity to put things together in a new way.
suggested by Adam Grubb
Time to start thinking of a different model:
1. Don’t require lots of resources, money, energy.
2. Hence: local, close-at-hand, not in consumer economy, not part of large bureaucracy. Doesn’t require complex equipment.
3. Hence: self-directed, under one’s own control, in one’s own community. that require skill and time
4. Hence: not publicized or supported by mainstream culture. It’s our particular idiocy not to recognize certain things if they can’t be regulated or marketed.
5. Hence: look at what people did in the past, or do in non-commercial, non-bureaucratic environments.
6. The difficulty will be psychological, sociological. Overcoming pressures, prejudices.
In this paper, I’d like to suggest a model for such an effort.
So languages. Here is something simple, under your own control, low-Carbon, low-energy. Makes you smarter. Useful, an unending source of delight and stimulation.
I’ll describe languages, because that’s what I’m involved in. But same ideas can (and are) applied to many other fields. Crafts, games, sports, outdoor activities.
WHAT are the opposing forces. Snobbishness, bureaucracy, academia, consumerist fantasies, short-cut solutions, mass media passivity. And the psychological effects on individuals: powerlessness, worthlessness, cynicism, materialism, pay attention to possessions/status rather than to own feelings.
Terrific social pressures against homemade activities as vs commercial. Noticed this in outdoor activities, when vast array of devices, clothes — got in the way of the outdoor experience. Buddhism — how it became commercialized, institutionalized – retreats, travel, expensive classes.
A model for learning other skills
But not everyone is interested in languages. However, can apply the same general ideas to other activities. They can be done without wealth, resources, bureaucracies.
They do require time, encouragement, and a few resources. Can be done on own, or in a community.
For example:
music, arts, crafts, sciences, sports, gardening, cooking, sewing.
I noticed that the people who were the happiest had one or more interests they could pursue on their own, that the would pursue, whether or not they were paid for it
Gardening, weaving, painting, gardening, music, cooking, sports, outdoor activities, science
Not competitive. May or may not be a careeer.
Under their control, do it at their own pace in their own way
Usually generous with the products
(The big issue – the vast cultural apparatus that makes us feel inadequate, unable to compete with the “professionals.” Another subject – but basically, much commercial culture exists “to make us stupid.” TV, for example. Universities. Professional organizations. See Ivan Ilyich.)
Languages and these others are good confidence builders – you can be happy without recourse to the industrial teat.
Under own control, without mediation of bureaucracies, business, consumerism
therefore: happiness, independence
Esp important whent money is in short supplies, big institutions are not looking reliable. need to find sources of happiness closer to home
Resource Use – do not need it to be happy
A culture of independence; of active vs passive
A mature culture vs an infantile culture
Take responsibility for oneself.
My conclusions. Rest of the paper show how these applly to learning a language.
Appendix
References
How-To
Books about Language Learning (“How to Learn Any Language” website)
Polyglot: How I Learn Languages
by Kató Lomb (Hungarian woman translator)
Full PDF
chatty and light. non-threatening. good advice.
Kató Lomb’s Strategies for Language Learning and SLA Theory by Scott Alkire (essay)
Insights of a Master Language Learner by Scott Alkire (another essay on Lomb)
How to Learn Any Language
By Barry Farber
How To Learn Any Language: Quickly, Easily, Inexpensively, Enjoyably and on Your Own [Pa
(Amazon)
At Google Books (On Google Books)
How to learn languages and what languages to learn by Mario Pei (Amazon) / TOC
Too Much College or Education Eating Up Life by Stephen Leacock.
Chapter 5 “Parlez-vous francais?” p.81-108 TEXT to be incorporated
The Art and Science of Learning Languages
By Amorey Gethin, Erik Gunnemark
TOC
Learning Vocabulary 1 by Amorey Gethin and Erik V. Gunnemark (edited extract from The Art and Science of Learning Languages)
(Amazon)
At Google Books
Amorey Gethin – bio
Amorey Gethin – interview
Language, Thought, and Communicating Rebellious Ideas by Amorey Gethin (essay on linguistics)
The Fraud of the Global English-Teaching Industry by Amorey Gethin (essay)
The English-Learning and Languages Review (list of articles, some by Gethin)
E.V.Gunnemark’s Mini System: Language-Learning for Beginners (article)
Italian Miniphrase by Erik V Gunnemark and Amorey Gethin
How to Learn A Foreign Language
Graham E. Fuller, 1987, Storm King Press, Friday Harbor, soft cover, ISBN 0-935116-02-5, 102 pages, 130 mm X 234 mm X 8 mm
The Pocket Linguist: A Practical and Highly Effective Guide to Learning any Language by Gregg A Miller (Amazon) under $10
Speak Like A Native: Professional Secrets for Mastering Foreign Languages by Michael Janich. Paladin Press. under $15. (Amazon)
The Quick and Dirty Guide to Learning Languages by A.G. Hawk. (Amazon) Online at Scribd.
Edwin T. Cornelius, Jr., 1955, Thmoas Y. Crowell Company, New-York, hard cover, LCCC 55-9194, 109 pages, 143 mm X 214 mm X 30 mm
1 Language Signposts 1
2 Orientation and Strategy 11
3 Understanding the Native Speaker
4 Avoiding an Ambush
5 Language Borders and Boundaries 45
6 Classroom Techniques 57
7 Classroom Tactics 73
8 Using Language Textbooks
9 Advanced Training 91
10 Making Use of Your Strategy
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Imparare le lingue
Mario Bendin, 1993, Arnoldo Mondadori, Milano, soft cover, ISBN 88-04-37406-3, 243 pages, 130 mm X 185 mm X 21 mm
about $20
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Questo libro vuole essere una guida scientificamente fondata per capire come funzionano il cervello e la mente nell’apprendimento delle lingue, in modo da andare “secondo natura”; cosa vuol dire in realtà “sapere una lingua”, in modo da concentrare l’attenzione su quel che serve davvero; come usare i materiali didattici e quelli autentici, dalle canzoni ai film, per imparare una lingua straniera.
Titolo: Imparare le lingue straniere
Autore: Balboni Paolo E.
Anno: 2008
Pagine: 143 p.
Editore: Marsilio (collana Elementi)
about $15
Cosi Potete Imparare Le Lingue (EU brochure)
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Wie lernt man fremde Sprachen
Erhard Dahl, 1999, Fresies Geistesleben, Stuttgard, soft cover, ISBN 3-7725-1508-8, 91 pages, 123 mm X 190 mm X 8 mm
Wie lernt man fremde Sprachen?: Eine Einführung in den Fremdsprachenunterricht an Waldorfschulen (Paperback)(German) Edited by Hans-Joachim Mattke, Edited by Bruno Sandkühler, By (author) Erhard Dahl == about $10
Sprache lernen (k)ein Problem
W. Gruhn, 1984, Leipzig, Berlin, soft cover, VLN 212-475/13/84, 181 pages, 128 mm X 205 mm X 12 mm
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/books/sprache-lernen-ein-problem.html
about $25
Fremdsprachen Lernen by Birgit Kuhn
(Amazon)
Schneller Sprachen lernen
Jens Seiler (Autor), Sandra La Cognata
(Amaon)
Sprachen Lernen
Robert Kleinschroten, 2000, Taschenbuch, Hamburg, soft cover, ISBN 3-499-60842-1, 272 pages, 125 mm X 191 mm X 16 mm
about $10
WEBSITES
How to Learn Any Language
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html
Language Learning Tips
http://www.language-learning-tips.com/
Fluent in 3 Months by Benny (Brendan) Lewis
Language Learning Advisor (a collection of posts and essays)
Language Learning Advisor – newsletter
The Linguist Method (The Linguist on Language)
Getting started in a language – YouTube (The Linguist on Language)
How do you get started learning a language. I used to recommend that people just buy 2 or 3 starter books, either Teach Yourself, or Colloquial or Assimil or the equivalent, and do them all. I now feel that this may not be the only way to go.
I think it is possible to start just with content. That is what I would now prefer to do. I bought a book for learning Rumanian, but it is full of grammar explanations. I am not motivated to start it. I would rather start into a story that I already know in English, but listen to it in Rumanian.
[I’m starting to agree with this]
François Micheloud
A language learner’s guide
Guide to Learn Languages Good suggestions from Francois Micheloud.
The Linguist Blogger
Self-affirmations
My Languages (YouTube) – 3rd one down is in English – a peptalk
Ranking Your Language Ability
Language Immersion Is a Loaded Phrase
The World’s Top 20 Languages
Building an Environment that Teaches You a Language
PROF AA
Spanish French Italian German (YouTube by Prof. Alexander Arguelles)
Dislike the idea of spending so much time on courses. I want to get into interesting reading or listening material as soon as possible. Coursework is a necessary evil.
Selecting Self-Study Foreign Language Materials.
talk: Learning without a method
Foreign Language Learning with Tutors
Foreign Language Study by Prof. Alexander Arguelles
Classroom Foreign Language Teaching
Foreign Language Learning with Tutors
Polyglots
The Polyglot Project: How to Learn Multiple Languages by Claude Cartaginese (sygycycc) (Amazon) / Free download (PDF).
Babel No More: The Search for the World’s Most Extraordinary Language Learners by Michael Erard. (Amazon)
Gift of the Gab by Michael Erard in New Scientist – article on learning multiple languages
Theory and Methods
Seven bad reasons for teaching grammar – and two good reasons for teaching some by Michael Swan
The Loom of Language
By Frederick Bodmer, Lancelot Thomas Hogben
At Google Books
1944 edition is complete online
http://www.archive.org/details/TheLoomOfLanguage
(apparently requires download a (free) DJVU viewer. see site for instructions)
http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#Texts_and_Books)
L’art d’apprendre les langues, ramené à ses principes naturels
By Mathias Weiss (1808)
At Google Books
PDF
De la manière d’apprendre les langues (GOOD)
By Claude François Lyzarde de Radonvilliers (1768)
At Google Books
PDF
Stephen Krashen
A Summary of Stephen Krashen’s “Principles and Practice in Second Language Acquisition” GOOD
“… language acquisition, first or second, occurs when comprehension of real messages occurs, and when the acquirer is not ‘on the defensive’… Language acquisition does not require extensive use of conscious grammatical rules, and does not require tedious drill. It does not occur overnight, however. Real language acquisition develops slowly, and speaking skills emerge significantly later than listening skills, even when conditions are perfect. The best methods are therefore those that supply ‘comprehensible input’ in low anxiety situations, containing messages that students really want to hear. These methods do not force early production in the second language, but allow students to produce when they are ‘ready’, recognizing that improvement comes from supplying communicative and comprehensible input, and not from forcing and correcting production.”
The Acquisition/Learning Hypothesis. The distinction between acquisition and learning is the most fundamental of all the hypotheses in Krashen’s theory, since it suggests that language comes to us in two rather different ways. Acquisition is one. You acquire language by using it for real communication. Learning, which he describes as “knowing about” language, is quite a different thing.
… Acquisition is the product of a subconscious process very similar to the process children undergo when they acquire their first language. It requires meaningful interaction in the target language – natural communication – in which speakers concentrate not on the form of their utterances, but in the communicative act. Learning, on the other hand, provides conscious knowledge “about” the target language. It is therefore less important than acquisition for basic communication, but it still plays an important role in language learning.
… The Input Hypothesis. The input hypothesis suggests that people acquire language in only one way: by understanding messages, or by receiving ‘comprehensible input’. According to the input hypothesis, learner’s progress by receiving second language input that is one step beyond their current stage of linguistic competence
Stephen Krashen and language acquisition (audio/video)
The Natural Approach: What Is It? by Vedat Kiymazarslan, 1995. more articles
Krashen SLA notions (PDF)
Krashen handout (PDF)
Extensive Reading: A Simple Technique with Outstanding Results by Thomas Koch
Imparare le lingue straniere (essay by Paolo Balboni)
Ciascun insegnante ha una sua storia di studio della lingua e può convincersi che sia l’unica maniera di essere “bravi studenti di lingue”: l’insegnante dalla mentalità analitica e riflessiva finisce per ritenere caotici e inconcludenti gli studenti intuitivi, olistici – e viceversa – e sceglie attività di insegnamento e di recupero che sono in linea con la sua idea di bravo studente…
Learning to Learn English: A Course in Learner Training/Lerner’s Book by Barbara Sinclair and Gail Ellis (1989 at Google (may be in PA library)
Learner Training (Part I) By Barbara Sinclair
DEVELOPING LEARNER AUTONOMY THROUGH A VIRTUAL EAP COURSE AT UNIVERSITY (PDF)
In keeping with Ellis and Sinclair’s (1989, 2) views, we
believe that students need information about language, the learning process, and
about themselves as language learners, to become aware of language as well as of
learning techniques and processes.
—
Peter McKenzie-Brown in “Language Matters” blog
The Structure of Language
Language Teaching: Some Notes on Method
Aural and Oral Skills
The Krashen Revolution
What is CLT?
Noam Chomsky’s Black Box
Confessions of a Language School Junkie
The Stress-timed Rhythm of English
Words, Words, Words
A Primer on Phonology
Glossary of Language Teaching Terms and Ideas
The Best Place to Learn
A Global Shift to Bilingualism?
Language Triumphant, Language in Decline
Adventures of a Teenage Polyglot (NY Times)
Experience: I can speak 50 languages (Guardian)
The Internet: The Best Place to Learn English
Polyglot Role-models
— the world of the polyglot —
may be intimidating… not in competition with them … but many important things to learn from them. I’m not interested in that world. Much more interested in reading and learning — the content. I think it’s important to be modest about your accomplishments, to describe your experiences truthfully, not try to be something you’re not. Even so, you do have something important to say – some of it is original, much of it is not.
The Art of Mastering Many Tongues
To me, Erard’s experiences in India were particularly interesting. There he met polyglots from families and communities that are ethnically and linguistically mixed, and who therefore speak many languages out of necessity rather than an urge to accumulate. This leads him to distinguish between the multilingual and the hyperpolyglot, or the purely acquisitive language learner. “For multilinguals, learning languages is an act of joining society,” he writes. “There’s no motive, no separable ‘will to plasticity’ that’s distinct from what it means to be part of that society.” But “being a hyperpolyglot means exactly the opposite. The hyperpolyglot’s pursuit of many languages may be a bridge to the rest of the world, but it walls him off from his immediate language community.”
Bart Anderson 
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